Rebuilding Community Resilience & Self-Reliance
Can we revisit the indoor garden subject?
Fall is here and I really have the bug to grow some plants inside. I have not seen any posts recently regarding the "indoor garden" subject. Is there anyone out there doing this? I talked to my mom in Oregon about bringing plants in from outside, her opinion is to start them from seed and keep them indoors. I wanted to bring some of my harvest in from outside only to find all kinds of spider mites on the Tomato plant, ugh, that's not coming in! What about the pepper plants? I have dug some up, planted in a container, taken all the spotted leaves off them and eyed for any bugs and did not see any. What about Rainbow Chard?
I do believe that we have to go back to lining a closet with aluminum foil, etc, even though it has an incredibly rediculous bad rep. I wish I had great South sunlight in the winter but I don't, so If anyone has any recommendations as to can you start seeds now? Lighting that works? What can be grown in the home in the winter? Any success stories?
Thanks,
Desha
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Moore on -
I don't do in door gardening but are you on the Victory Garden yahoo group? as I remember there was some indoor garden talk on there recently. I think you could read the old emails. TransitionMilwaukee@yahoogroups.com
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Permalink Reply by Nancy Frank on -
I am aware that spinach can be mulched outside for harvest into the winter months. I am not sure if chard would be the same, but they are such close relatives. I would suggest a web search on that.
Peppers and tomatoes need a lot of light. I have experience with an indoor aquaponic system at School for Urban Planning and Architecture, a charter high school where I volunteer. The system is next to a large west facing window and has four 4-foot florescent tubes over the planting area. Tomato productivity has been dismal--three small tomatoes in three months of growth. However, basil does quite wonderfully with this setup. So grow your basil and buy your tomatoes. And don't forget to measure and be mindful of the power you are using if you use artificial light.
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Permalink Reply by Bryce Ruddock on -
A best reference for indoor growing in the city is Fresh Food From Small Spaces the Square Gardener's Guide To Year Round Growing, Fermenting and Sprouting by R. J. Ruppenthal 2008, Chelsea Green Press. Someone who has been doing a lot on this subject of growing at home in an apartment is Milton Dixon in Chicago. He can be contacted through the Midwest Permaculture ning site. We've dabbled with sprouts and some herbs as well as kim-chee and all are doable.
The Ruppenthal book goes into light requirement details for various winter grown indoor plants.
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Permalink Reply by Milton Dixon on -
Be careful about saying my name, I might appear...
Even in a sunny, south facing window it may be difficult to grow food all season. The biggest limiting factor is the shorter days and weaker light. The only plants that will do well in that situation are ones that could tolerate some shade anyway. The best measure of how much light you have are the plants themselves so just go for it. Plant something that you think might be appropriate for the space and it will tell you if you're right or not. A general rule of thumb for indoors is that herbaceous plants do better than small fruit which do better than large fruit.
My original intention was to only use the natural resources I had but I finally did break down and buy a light. I got a 4' shop light from the hardware store and put it on a timer. It still didn't work because I tried to do too much with the little light I was adding. To really be effective growing full sun plants you have to keep the light a couple of inches above the plant. All I got was this one lousy tomato and then the plant died. It didn't even taste good! I'm rethinking my space now as a place to start seedlings and propagate perennials.
Insects can also be a big problem indoors. It's good that you didn't bring in those spider mites... Once you get something it's hard to get rid of without getting rid of all of your plants, which you may not want to do if you have some very nice houseplants like I do.
If you're going to look into the setting up your closet, one thing I would recommend to check out is LED lights. Also you should take a look at Windowfarms, an open source, hydroponic window garden. I would be more inclined to make it more of an aquaponics system but the information on the website is very interesting and ever evolving.
I hope that all is helpful...
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on -
Good timing! I'm looking to make a bulk order for some hydroponics supplies and start putting some stuff together soon (next month-ish). I was thinking of just focusing on the basics - net pots, nutrients, growing media, and possibly some lighting (though due to cost I can't stock much of it). I'd be making this available to members for a little over cost and it should still be cheaper than Brew-n-Grow in Brookfield. I looked around a bit and right now I'm leaning toward GreenTree Hydroponics for everything but the lights. I'm looking into low-wattage MH (Metal-Halide) and HPS (High-Pressure Sodium) lights as well as CFL and tube fluorescent bulbs. I still have to do some research and cost comparisons on those because as this informative experiment shows, the bulbs make quite a difference. It would be good to know how much interest there is and in what areas so I can focus on what y'all are looking for. If there's anything on the GreenTree site that you'd like ordered and can pay for ahead of time, I'll add it to the order to save you some shipping $$.
My goal in this is to put together some simple, low-maintenance kits that cost between $50-100 and some elbow grease, as well as provide a local source for people experimenting with indoor agriculture. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Take lighting for instance: you'll have to pay for electricity, and due to inefficiency some of that is lost to heat - but in WI, where it's cold when you'd be growing indoors, that heat goes to your home reducing your energy bills. Then consider the water usage: although you'll lose some to evaporation, it's always arid in winter time, and that water "lost" to evaporation will help keep your home nice and humid (and increase the effectiveness of your heating - as we all know, it's not the heat, it's the humidity [which causes a perceived increase in temperature]). WIN-WIN-WIN. Plus, you'll be around plants during the winter when all the plants outside are dead, and who doesn't miss some green in the wintertime?
I forgot about the bug issue until recently. I had lots of problems with it (and lost some houseplants, too). I'm hoping that getting rid of the soil and using some type of soil-less mix and/or hydroponics will make pest management easier. I really want to avoid using pesticides. I also have very little experience in this, so I'm looking to the gardeners out there for help with that.
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Permalink Reply by Jeanne Labana on -
I would be so interested in this.....doing some indoor gardening with an after school program!
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on
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Hi Jeanne, I'd be willing to help out in any way I can; I have some experience working as an assistant instructor at Discovery World. What kind of schedule are you looking at? Feel free to contact me using this page or on the mailing list.
-Jack
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on
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I've got some updates! I'm putting together a bulb comparison, and my basic supplies arrived today.
In answer to a couple questions:
Lining/reflective coating: Mylar is good material and not too pricey; it should at least be competitive with aluminum and easier to install. The cheapest place I've been able to find it is the Space Blankets they sell at Sportsmans Guide - you get over 112 sqft for $10. It won't last forever, but it should last a few seasons. I have a couple of these if you'd like to see what they're like and I'll sell them for $3/ea.
I'm still evaluating different systems and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull a Pokemon and try them all (given enough time). I did find some good systems, some made from reused materials on Instructables and the Window Farms site.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on
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I finished putting together a cost analysis of a few different bulbs/lighting systems. I figure whether you're using soil or hydro, your plants aren't going anywhere without light, so it seemed like a good place to start. I'm including an excel file that has information on the output, energy use, and total value considering original cost, energy use, and bulb output. You'll notice that the HID (High Intensity Discharge) lamps such as MH (Metal Halide) and HPS (High Pressure Sodium) are generally twice as efficient as the fluorescent bulbs. The downside is you'll need to spend more on a fixture and might have some issues with integrating the lights into your home (they are bright and large).
I was at Bliffert's the other day and noticed they have GE Plant and Aquarium lights as well as $15 4' shop light fixtures. I recommend putting one Plant light and one "Cool White" tube in it, bringing the total to about $30. This combination has a separate entry in the spreadsheet because the bulbs together have a higher output, lower cost, and are still suitable for plants, and good efficiency. This is a good system for people looking for something small and inexpensive to get started.
If you want to go all out and get the more powerful HID lamps, there's a company called e-cono light that's based in WI and has some of the best rates on fixtures anywhere, but they aren't designed for plants so you'll need to be creative when installing them. I'm also attaching a sheet of some of their fixtures I cherry-picked. There are companies that make fixtures specifically for plants, which are nice if you don't mind the extra $$. It's also worth checking craigslist, as you can often find them for 25% of the cost (for example). - Attachments:
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Growlight Information.xls, 33 KB -
e-conolight sample fixtures.pdf, 92 KB
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on
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I received the supplies, if anyone is interested in growing media, nutrients, or net pots, let me know. I can post a price list as well, if that would be helpful. I updated the growlight information to include cost/mo to run the bulb 18 hours/day.
I started working on the seed-starting and aeration this weekend, the air manifold is made from PVC and some fittings I picked up at a medical equipment company auction and the seed-starter is made from a scavenged drawer and some other found material and a few 18W Fluorescent lights. I'm going to use Rapid Rooters to fill in the holes, only starting from seeds instead of clones. This would be considered a shallow water culture hydroponics system.
Here's the supplies:
Here it is pre-testing for water-tightness. I still need to add extra plastic to keep the humidity up.
Here I am pumping out the water. It tested out fine, no leaks! As you can see, a little water splashed out. I think this will be resolved when the foam and plastic is in place. The blue things are airstones to keep the water aerated, but they're off right now.
This is the manifold to distribute the air.
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Permalink Reply by Jack Driscoll on
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I've got more updates to share while I'm working on a longer write-up of what I'm doing. Plants are still growing in the seed-starter pictured below, though most have progressed beyond the seedling stage. I've also moved 18 of the plants to larger buckets and put them under 40W of fluorescent (very similar to the fluorescent system suggested below).
I finally picked up a pH/ec/TDS meter, and if anyone would like to borrow it for a short time, let me know (I use it almost daily). Getting the pH adjustments has been a bit tricky, it's easy to add too much, and just like cooking, it's a lot harder to go back. I was able to fix it by adding extra nutrients and water. So far everything is going pretty well, and a couple seeds I had all but given up on finally sprouted (Nicotiana, for one). I'll be making some changes in the next few weeks to address lighting and some maintenance PITAs, but for now, here's the plants!
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Permalink Reply by Barbara Richards on -
I don't see this posted here so I will post it now. I posted it somewhere to the group a while back. This is a site that describes an indoor urban gardening project.
here's the link:http://www.windowfarms.org/
Happy growing. Peace, Barbara
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